Okay - so how is this for a new story idea? A really well-adjusted, attractive man (we'll call him...um...Edward!) and a really nice, cute, issue-free woman (um...Bella! Yeah! Short for Isabella!), meet in a quiet club where the music isn't too loud and only non-alcoholic drinks are served. They chat about their friends in the suburbs, their childhood pets who are now gone (but all died of natural causes), and discover they kind of like each other. They exchange phone numbers.
A week later, one calls the other, and they go out for a nice dinner.
Three days later, they go see a nice, romantic comedy. No actual sex displayed, and no foul language.
A week after that, they realize the've passed the "three date thing," and have missionary, fade to black sex.
A few months later, they get engaged.
Then they get married. The wedding is perfect. Her dress has some lace or something on it from...I dunno...France? Really - I don't give a flying fuck.
They have a kid.
Or two.
And a dog.
Maybe a cat.
Are you puking yet? Because I am.
I've never written "nice." Not now, not ever. It bores me to death. I like fucked up, completely mentally warped characters. They entertain me, and I like getting in their heads. I don't do it for the sake of sensationalism or to increase my review count. I like feedback - it helps me write better. Send in in an email, comment here on the blog, send me a PM, a tweet - whatever. Reviewing is there for your convenience, but I give less of a flying fuck about review count than French lace. Those who are reading this blog regularly probably already know that.
I have no problem with people not liking what I write. To each their own. I don't mind people saying my stories suck - everyone gets to express an opinion. If you as a reader want to consider the topic exploitation, that is your prerogative.
However, I am mildly insulted that it was suggested I choose my material for the sake of sensationalism or to get more reviews. I am definitely insulted at the suggestion that the review counts on my stories are high due to my choice of "exploitative" topics and not because I'm a damn good writer with good story ideas. I choose my topics because I have a degree in psychology, have spent years of my life studying abnormal brain function, the behavior of victims, the reasons perpetrators of crimes become perpetrators, and general effective and ineffective behavior modification models. Yeah - I know what I'm talking about, and I know how to describe it. THAT is why I get a lot of reviews I love trying to figure out why people do what they do.
Obviously, a lot of you do as well, or you wouldn't follow me from story to story. Thanks for that. :)
That's why I write, people. For your enjoyment and mine. Period. Exclamation point. Maybe a semicolon. Darn it! Where's my beta?!?!?
(Oh - and that bit at the top? That was showing, not telling. That's a writing thing. I know a little about that, too.)
/sarcasm
Sorry you are getting grief. The internet is a crazy place. Like anything if they don't like it, they should not read it. That said I have a story idea that I would love to see you develop:
ReplyDeleteEdward: uber hot Hollywood celebrity known as a playboy (cause really who is more screwed up than Hollywood)on set shooting a movie in Pittsburgh or North Carolina or some non-Hollywood type place. One night some of the crew go out for dinner & get food poisoning. Producers scramble to find local hair and makeup people to fill in for the laid up crew. Enter Bella cosmetologist at the very upscale salon. Her clients are all the wealthiest most established who's who of said city, but she' never met a celebrity let alone Edward Cullen. He's brash and an egomaniac and she quickly learns to hate the idea of him. What she doesn't realize is it's all a facade, part of the press persona he has created, designed to keep everyone away because he learned long ago everyone just wants him for money or fame so he shut himself off. Til one day the usual hair person is not there and she seems oblivious to his charm. Why isn't she acting the way all girls do when they meet him? Bella's not oblivious, just guarded-she' dealt with egomaniacs before and swore she would never go down that road again. But oh how nice it feels to run her fingers through his hair.
There you go. I guess it's presumptious of me to even think that you would use this idea, but I just had to get it out of my head and I'm not a good writer so I thought I'd pass it on.
You seem to have a few followers who just don't "get it".... Doh!!!!!
ReplyDeleteThose who enjoy boring mediocre stories definitely shouldn't be reading "Savage". They should find a nice boring lemon every chapter with no real plot development story and stick to that. Oh, wait. . They skip the lemons too?? Hmmm.... mayhaps they shouldn't be reading Fanfic at all.
Sorry there are so many morons out there. Just know they are the minority and you are an awesome story teller.
Well, when I read the first part I was a bit of shocked. I thought maybe towards the end you'll bring some twist or something. True, if you wrote something conventional like that maybe I wouldnt have been a fan of your writing. I love the assessment of each characters behavior. Be it Edward from UC or Carlisle from Offside. Reading a fanfiction with a solid storyline is good reading in my point of view.
ReplyDeleteDidnt know you have a degree in psychology. Thats great!!
It's like everything else in this fandom really, people take themselves far too seriously all the way around.
ReplyDeleteSome of us write for fun, some to stretch out imaginations, some to get to the point where we can write an o-fic and maybe possibly one day get published... regardless, there's stories out there about things far worse than this topic.
Get a life and move on... then get over yourselves.
Well said hon! I could not agree more. You are not forcing anyone to read your work and it is easy for the person to stop reading if they desire to do so. I think all your stories have angst and you warn readers WAY ahead of time. Angst is just a fact of life, everyone has it. I read many things other than angst and I do love my HEA.
ReplyDeleteMy philosophy has always been to leave a comment on every chp I read (not just yours). It maybe short, it maybe long. You can verbally express an opinion without being condescending. If I seriously feel compelled to stop reading for any reason, I stop. I don't bash an author because I didn't like it. It's my opinion. Everyone has one.
Example: Surviving Bella. You warned us NOT to read the last chapter.
Did I listen? Nooooooooo.
Did I like it? Noooooooo.
Did that stop me from reading your other work? Nooooooooo.
Hum...degree in psychology?? (now it all starts to make sense with your messed up Edward's - lol). I always thought you worked in IT.
Have a RELAXING fun vacation on your cruise. My family goes on our first in a month too.
And yes....I will continue to read your stories...and grab my big girl panties when they are needed.
Ignore the coat-tailers.
ReplyDeleteWell..this will probably sound totally kiss ass but I love love love all of your stories (well, maybe not Hide and Drink but that is just because it sucked me in and sucked the life out of me). I like that they are different, well written, and your intelligence is obvious.
ReplyDeleteSide note...are you my mother? I haven't heard "flying fuck" fly from someone's lips since I was a kid.....
To each his own. We all have different wants and likes. It is not my right or anyone else right to put someone else down for what makes them happy! If someone doesn't doesn't like what or how you write don't read it! Why post some negative review or say you write for the amount of reviews! I like your wit and the originality in your stories ! They never bore me and I am never sure what you will come up with! Love it! CBWR left me laughing, even with the subject matter! I do have to say, I enjoy some of the stories with just plain dating, marriage and babies! I read a little of everything! Rigt now I am reading Revelry, what angst and heartbreak in that one... TeamBella...gotta love her! Ok, I have rambled enough! Sorry! Hope your vacation is a good one! Love everything you write! Fiction with teeth! Not boredom!
ReplyDeleteSavvy, I do have to say that I absolutely LUUURRRRVE your stories. Reading them is a way to escape from my so very vanilla life.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that you write your stories for reviews, or intend them to be exploitative. You do ALWAYS include inner monologues in which your characters have some shining moments of clarity (ie when Edward realizes in CBWR? that what he did was in fact rape).
With that said... I do think that there are people out there who choose certain topics and situations just for the hell of it, and to get attention. You can always tell because the author throws it in your face and shoves it down your throat. Every person that reads FF has come across one of those at some point.
I do NOT think that MoTU or H&D were written for that at all. Both of those stories used their situations smartly and they were there to help illustrate the internal workings of their characters.
I could see the point she was trying to make, but I think that maybe she went about it using the wrong stories as examples (I haven't read En Point...) I hope that this latest bit of "drama" doesn't dissuade you at all. I think from your fanbase you can see that it was a minorty that would have classified your stories in such a manner.
Keep up the GREAT work! Hope you have a wonderful and relaxing vacation!
Don't mind your other readers. As long as there's so many of us who enjoys what you're doing, it's okay. And to those who doesn't enjoy your writing, they should simply ignore your stories. As I would do if such case happens. Whenever I do not want the plot of a particular story, or if ever I get bored just by reading the first five chapters, I would simply stop reading it. Love... Love... Love your stories... Do not stop writing because of those people.
ReplyDeleteShay,
ReplyDeleteKeep on doing what you're doing. I have a lot of respect for you with your super time-management skills being able to write, work outside of the home, and take care of family.
There are a lot of strong opinions in the fandom, some are enlightened and informed and others are not.
You have a degree in psychology? That's FANTASTIC! What a benefit to your writing skills and to your life!
You are WICKED AWESOME!!! Don't ever change!
Love ya,
jedigirlsc
I love the way you write and how your mind woks, keep doing the things your own way.
ReplyDeleteY ahora te lo escribo en español porque es muy posible que me entiendas mejor ;)
Me encanta como escribes y la forma en la que te funciona la cabeza, sigue haciendo las cosas a tu manera, yo seguiré pendiente.
Muchas gracias por la magia ;)
I absolutely love your stories....Addicted. Fuck them, they aren't worth it. Keep doing what you do, cause your obviously doing it right.
ReplyDeleteHoot here.
ReplyDeleteThank you for speaking up. It is okay to not like a story. It's not okay to make presumptions concerning any author's intentions and to spout those presumptions as if they are fact.
Thankfully, I do not rely on the fandom or twitter as any kind of moral compass. I participate in the fandom --- for FUN! Imagine that!
And your stories are fun. They may not always be happy...
Keep up the great work.
xx
What I like about your stories is that your characters find their way...
ReplyDeleteThey're not like that first bit up there...they are real...wherever real starts for them. Through the course of your fic, they change...and so far, it's been for the better. They've seen the error of their ways...they've been redeemed...
THAT's why I read your stories...
Kathie (katmom)
I have enjoyed every one of your stories, Savy. They may not have been comfortable at times, but they have always been thought provoking and entertaining (*gasp* reading something just for fun?!? shocking!). You have a great vacation and thank you for sharing these stories with us! :)
ReplyDeleteI love your writing! Your'e the best out there! I am truly angered by anyone that claims you are not. In my opinion, you can take any topic and turn it into something increadible! Take for example, soccer is not something that interest me, but Off Sides has me captivated. And Bella and Edward set in medival times sounded silly to me at first, but GOD!, it's the BEST story out there! Why is that? Because you are such aa incredible writer, you could write about a trash can in the street and you'd have us hooked-you're just that good. By the way are you published? Because if you're not, you should be!
ReplyDeleteSavage- I love all your work! I can't blame you for being put off. You warn us time & time again. What you write about is real life stuff..alcoholism, human trafficking, physical abuse, it happens. Everyday. It ain't pretty, but it's real. I personally have never once thought of you as exploiting or romanticizing or sensationalizing any of it. If anything, especially with your psychology background you are bringing awareness. If you don't like the subject material people, then don't read! It's just that simple! If you don't want to hear about murder, war, rape, child abuse, crooked politicians...then don't watch the news or read a newspaper!! I think you are a fantastic writer. Is it sometimes hard to read? Of course, but only from the stand point of imagining the pain & suffering of the characters you create, bkz it's real life suffering. I will keep reading & reviewing. And thank you, for bringing your real life knowledge in to your work & for bringing awareness to such hard to imagine subject material in such a creative & honest way. That is all.
ReplyDeleteFrom: @ kayjaydubs
I love your stories and if people do not like reading what you are reading, they should stop reading and go find their rainbows. I do love sweets but enough so I don't get toothache. SO please keep writing what you are writing , I love the complications in your story. I remember when I read Hide and Drink , and the thing that was attractive was that the story was different.
ReplyDeleteLove your stories , :D
I'm not sure what to say in the face of this type of comment. Certainly, I am a huge fan of all your work because I happen to think you are a superb writer, who comes up with great story ideas and then gives us great characters and plot development. Also, apart from your one-shots and CBWR? the sex rarely comes into play until many chapters in (and even CBWR? only had the rather disastrous bj at the beginning). I have never got the impression that your raison d'etre was reviews - and I think that's true of all the best fanfic writers.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find insulting about that article is the insinuation that, despite the blogger's constant denials, I should be ashamed to (a) read what she considers to be exploitative fiction and (b)indulge my sexual fantasies. I believe it has been well documented that many women have rape fantasies, and I am one of them - it certainly doesn't mean I want to be raped or beaten. As SleepyValentina commented under that article, there is a big difference between rape and rape fantasy, the former being about violence, the latter being about sex. Yes, there are ff authors out there who write tacky and, if I'm honest, voyeuristic and unpleasant fics about taboo subjects, but they are seldom particularly well written, and I just stop reading and delete from my list. I am all about the writing and that's why I read everything you produce.
The blogger's problem is clearly with fics which are popular - which brings me back to my point that she regards the readers as much at fault as the writers. However, I think she picked the wrong fics to castigate, particularly H&D, which had a brilliant plot and fully developed characters, with the emphasis on Edward's struggle with his escalating mental instability. Also, your fics often deal with the consequences of people's actions, which you specifically explored in CBWR? which, again, I feel contradicts whatever point the blogger was trying to make.
In addition, she uses Katinki's one-shot about sexual slavery as some kind of rebuttal, but when I reviewed Kati's story, saying how good it was but that I was also enjoying CBWR? she responded that she, too, was reading and enjoying it, so what does that say!
Phew - frightful word vomit ... apologies!
If your stance is indefensible examine your motives. By thine own words are thou thrice damned.
ReplyDeletesic em girl!!! Ya know i've always been a fan of all your stories. I love your style of writing and the creativeness that flows in your work. Seems like the nay slayers could be adult enough to figure out for themselves, if they don't like or disagree with what you write,, then don't read it.. It seems very simple. There are thousands of ff stories out there!! So go read something else.. I for one, enjoy reading the results of your abnormal brain function, (oh wait,,so sorry-you said you studied abnormal brain function).. either way.. i love what you write and how you write it.. I just appreciate your time and effort you put into all this and for sharing it with us... Pam B.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised h & d was mentioned. I agreed with some of the things she said but never thought of your fics as meeting her categorization because you have a real plot and character development. That's what makes a story interesting. I think it also brings some uncomfortable issues up that can help bring awareness. Slavery was a foreign concept to me until I read cbwr? And now I'm reading ep and finding out it's still a real issue. Anyway I could rant about this for several reasons but don't believe your work should be included in that list!
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your creativity with us :)
@shelgibson
Oh gosh, I feel so stupid.
ReplyDeleteBeen there all the time... and I was blind all the time too.
Where?
In your summary of UC in your page of FanFiction.
There says: What happens when she can't give him the one thing he must have?
I don't know that this reference is about a position final, or if was preparation for the part that we are now, but always been there!!
I think that I can't blame the Jane's tea more...
This line, in the summary, is the north that guide this story.
How will be the end? I don't know! Unexpected, maybe.
I will like that Bella e Edward stay together. And I think that, for those age, is very possible that the husb have two wifes, and that wifes don't be crazy about the situation. If they don't break, this will be my type of happy end here. Incomplets are this: is better hope less. Just so i don't will be crazy when the exact line don't appear.
From @CamilaLombone
Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of cold, black heart.
ReplyDeleteAs the co-author of another story that could easily have been mentioned in that post yesterday, I applaud your response and shout, "Hear, hear!"
Without conflict there is no story. And some of us choose to provide conflict through the personalities and behavior of the main characters rather than external forces. This is what interests me; though I'm not trained in psychology, I am fascinated by the way people think and behave, and how their past affects their present and future.
I, too, enjoy receiving reviews (as long as they're polite), but they're not my goal, my reason for writing. I write to explore my own psyche and the myriad possibilities that human behavior provides. If I were never to receive another review, I would still write. Most of the things I've written will never see the light of day - not because I think they're not worth it, but because they're too personal.
I could go on, but I imagine I'm just the choir preaching to the minister, lol. You've already expressed what I feel in a much more eloquent way than I'm currently capable of.
You have a very loyal reader in me. Thank you again for your stories, your characters, and your insight.
From @3Hare5
KICK ASS, SHAY!! Awesome.
ReplyDeleteJ x.
I have found that sometimes, people will say (or write things) even though THEY.DON'T.KNOW.WHAT.THEY.ARE.FUCKING.TALKING.ABOUT! So, I kind of learned to ignore them. Seriously, when has real life ever been all hearts and flowers and unicorns and rainbows and sunshine? If you want that kind of un-reality in your fic reading then you ought to know what you are getting into BEFORE you read a story!
ReplyDeleteI am venting. I have been in this fic fandom since Aug 2009 and have seen these waves of bullshit move through it in almost regular cycles and it just kills me that there are such dopey ass people out there.
*sigh* Shay, I read your stories precisely for the reasons you have described and do not read your stories with any expectation that they will be nothing but well-written, character driven with a compelling plot-line that I absolutely enjoy...each and every time.
Hi there Savage!
ReplyDeleteFirst of let me tell you that I'm a fan through and through!
I get that everyone is a critic and of course everyone has an opinion. But they are all missing something very important, and that is Free Will (freedom), we all have the right to read what we want, and since variety is the spice of life, I can safely say that I rather read about Rape fantasies and D&s relationships and HuCow and Daddy fetishes and other tabus rather than live them (Im not saying I'm not a little curious about it, but Im a totally chicken so yeah, I'd rather live life by- curiously through fanfiction).
I would never condone actual Rape or Human trafficking or un-consensual Slavery but if that is your FETICH then by all means go for it. Besides how would we all know about all this stuff in a sort of safe environment? Bc I consider this fandom sort of safe, I've never read a story that didn't have warnings in it or disclaimers or unrated. I try to stay away from stories that don't bc I think that's a little irresponsible (sometimes I write a nice review or PM the author about it,I know I'm a little nosy that way but I do have young nieces and students who love this fandom and sometimes recommend fics to me, that's actually how I got into it), since most of the fandom is made out of young women, and I do mean young. I personally love your stories I'm staying and making myself at home here so thanks for writing and sharing your stories with us.
No complaints here.
DO NOT change anything that you are doing. I love the way you let everyone know that what's your's is your's and you can do what you want. Okay, let's see if I can get this out to where it makes sense. I read certain types of fics for a variety of reasons. I may read a particular fic to see if Bella is going to grow a pair somewhere down the line, get revenge, or just get herself out a bad situation. If it's a WIP you never know what you're going to get. I adore ALL of your characters even the flawed ones b/c they each play a part in the plot. Without one quality the whole story can flop. I guess the point is that not everyone has to like what you write, but there are a fuckton of us who do, and we appreciate the fact that you take time away from your RL to give this to us. People need to stop looking for a message in everything. Not everyone is out to get them, and not everyone is out to corrupt the impressionable teenagers sneaking and reading M fanfics. It's called fiction for a reason, b/c it's not meant to be real. (If that was the case, we could all hop a plane to Forks and find our own Vampire boyfriends.) It's not meant to be taken literally. It's here for entertainment value, not life lessons.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with all of you that said great things about Savage and get the fuck off this site for all you that are giving her grief!!
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm glad you aren't planning on letting anyone change what you write, how you write, or why you write. If someone doesn't like the story, don't read it. It's that simple.
ReplyDeleteWhile I tend to sometimes like fluff, most of the stories I adore have the warped characters; well honestly I really love Dark Edward.... a lot. And I have enjoyed all your stories even when I get tense with the direction they go. But I am in it for the ride. I am sadden to see you get grief over your creativity. People who can't handle it should just stop reading. No one is forcing anyone to read. I read because I love what you write and always am eagerly awaiting a new chapter from you. Thank you for giving me something to look forward to reading everyday. :D
ReplyDeleteUgh, I've been trying so hard to not involve myself in this, but it seems I just can't get away, so I will go ahead and post my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteLet me say this first. I do NOT think that Hide & Drink (or anything you've written for that matter) should be included in what she wrote. I read her blog and I kind of agree with the overall message that she had. There are some stories out there that have these dark themes, but have a somewhat "rainbows and unicorns" type love story. I don't buy it. They just don't make sense. People just don't suddenly fall inlove with their rapist.
I've only read two of the stories that she mentions and one of them was yours. The other completely fell under what she was saying. At the end of it I was left saying to myself "wait. now they just live happily ever after? That just ain't right!"
Anyway, like I said, I agree with her overall message. There does seem to be a theme in some fics that makes it sexy or awesome to be raped/enslaved/beaten/whatever. Like somehow these things are okay. I was raped, and let me tell you... it's not sexy, awesome, or okay.
I'll say this again... I don't think your stories fall under this at all. I never thought that any of them made it okay to be doing whatever it was they were doing. I really enjoy your stories. You have them doing these not so great things, but you have the thoughts behind the actions. You include the 'why.' The behave this way for a reason and you include that. There is so much behind what is actually going on and that is what I truly enjoy. Anyway, I'm rambling and with my lack of sleep last night I don't think I'm being as articulate as I need to be. I'll just stop now.
I wanted to let you know that I have placed a link to this post in my post in order to show your side of the story.
ReplyDeleteI inivite you to join the conversations happening in the coments section of my post. There are a lot of people that support and love your story speaking up there. One of those people shared this link with me, and I'm very thankful they did.
I see that there are other reasons to write fiction like H&D (other than to get more reviews) and while I'm still not comfortable with the content of your story, I DO NOT dispute your right to write/post it.
Thank you for sharing your views.
Why do you have the need to imply that those of us who don`t like rape fics don`t like it because we can`t handle sex in fics? It`s the falling in love with a rapist and an abuser that`s disturbing - not the sex.
ReplyDeleteAnd no - one is not necessarily boring just because one doesn`t like rape and abuse made into something hot. There are plenty of racy fics out there that deal with sex in a more credible way than making rapists sexy.
I never made that implication. I just stated what *I* like/don't like in a fic. I said it was boring to *me*. You feel free to enjoy what you like. Mr. Savage loves that sappy shit - it drives me nuts. If I have to watch Bridgette Jones' Diary one more time... ;)
ReplyDeleteP.S. - I'm fairly certain I don't even use the word "Rape" in my post. Perhaps you came in with some preconceived notions? I'm guessing you haven't even read any of my fics, because if you had, you would know that (aside from the one-shots) there's actually not all that much sex in them...
ReplyDeleteOkay, you had me worried for a minute with that "story idea" (whew!). Real life is not always neat and tidy. I like the way your mind works. Fuck the naysayers and keep doing YOU.
ReplyDeleteWTF If ya don't like don't read! That is pretty cut and dry don't ya think.....ya know freedom of speech. Bottom line it is fiction! Savage don't let stupidity rain on our party! You write wonderfully! Will continue to follow you because it is not REAL once again I am spelling it out for ya it is FICTION DUH! Get a life and worry about feeding and educating our children of the world!
ReplyDeleteYou`re right - I haven`t read your fics. I`d never even heard about you or your fics before einfach mich mentioned them in her post.
ReplyDeleteI read your post as a comment to einfach mich`s post and that post was about abuse/rape fics. I have in no way made any comments on your fics - apart from the fact that one of them was mentioned in einfach mich`s post. I made a comment about your post. A comment on the comment, so to speak.
And if you`re not implying what kind of fics we (as in people who don`t care much for abuse fics) enjoy - then why mention what Mr. Savage likes? Is it really so that - in you mind - if one doesn`t like the "dark fics", as some prefer to call them, then one *must* like sappy shit?
I like sex in fics, as in real life. I don`t like abusers being made sexy.
Dude, you really started to freak me out with your story idea....I really was about to puke! Before I started reading your stories, I was one of those people who read those boring fics that never had any huge conflicts and had only "nice & normal" Edwards and Bellas. Once I stumbled onto your story "Hide & Drink", that part of me was HISTORY! I loved how dark that Edward was and I just found the subject matter to be extremely fascinating. Now that I've started reading all of your fics, I find all those "nice & normal" fics to be completely nauseating and just boring. They can't hold my interest. I LOVE the angst. Like seriously, who wants to read all that fluff all the time?! If that's what you want, then go read something else. Because if the name "Savage" isn't obvious enough, I don't know what to tell those people...lol. But seriously, I'm always on the edge of my seat waiting for an update of one of your stories EVERY DAY! Keep up the amazing work. No other fic author keeps me as entertained as you do.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - if you haven't read my fics, then please refrain from commenting on them, or at least have the tits to sign your name. They don't contain ANYTHING that glorifies abuse. The comment abut what Mr. Savage likes is an EXAMPLE that is intended to show you that I obviously have no problem with people who like stories I don't care for, nor do I hold it against them, since I'm obviously sleeping with one of them. You must have missed that obvious point.
ReplyDeleteI didn't say anything that you are implying, and you don't know anything about my work. Educate yourself so you can discuss intelligently, or get the fuck off my blog.
To my wonderful beta - I apologize for my obvious overuse of the word obvious. Please flog me in a completely mutual and consensual way.
ReplyDeleteI am very sorry that this article has attacked you. It is pretentious, but very poorly written. The author doesn't justify her thesis about "Hide and Drink", she just states her preconceived notion with one sentence. Besides, she conveniently avoids to discuss why other fics on the same topics don't attract the same attention. For me it is the author who exploits the taboo topics, getting attention, trying to hurt a successful author and to reduce the dissonance between her self-esteem and popularity.
ReplyDeleteI admire your understanding of psychology, great talent, hard work and dedication to your fans. I would like to wish a very pleasant vacation!:)
Hi Savage,
ReplyDeleteI don't review enough (and when I do I usually do it anonymously because I don't actually have a ff.net account), but I just wanted to say thank you for your stories. You got me out of only reading the "nice" Edward and Bella stories and now I'm addicted to angst (most specifically yours). Please don't let all of this get you down, and know that you have so many people who appreciate your writing and what you do.
So thanks again!
way to go Savage! if you don't like it get the fuck off her blog!
ReplyDeleteGet the hell off her blog I am waiting for her Tuesday teaser and update to Offsides and she can't do that and bitch with you bitches! Find something important to BITCH about like world peace for fuck sakes
ReplyDeleteDon't waste time and energy, this fandom, like all in thsi life, has a good side and a bad one. Some ppl likes drama, some ppl can't accept that there are better writers than themself, there is envy and malice, but at the end of the day you realized there are a lots and lots of readers that love the way you write/think/plot etc etc, and I'm one of them.
ReplyDeleteSo let them, they'll rot in their shit, they'll keep talking shit about you and/or your fics but deep down they want to have your ideas for fics and your amount of reviews.
It's ok to vent but don't let them get to you!!!!
Xox
Hi Savvy,
ReplyDeleteI started reading your stories when I found Surviving Bella and that was harsh at times. You kind of gave me immunity to shock for a while there, that is, until the last chapter of UC LOL Gosh, that was heartbreaking and hell yeah I was pissed too BUT I'm not going to stop reading. I know the way you write and I do love those characters. If anything, I think it's a compliment to your writing that I'm so invested in these characters.
Some people just don't know how to enjoy things. If I don't like something, trust me, I stop doing it. With CBW,R? it was touch and go at the beginning but I decided to keep reading because I know your plots are never simple minded. I'm so glad I did!
So, after all this blabbing my point is a LOT of us do appreciate your writing. No one is ever going to get approval from everyone but I'm glad that YOU know you don't need it :D
Beta here, let the flogging commence. See? I just wrote about a touchy subject which some may have issue with, but I'm not really about to reach through the interwebz with my non-existant whips and chains to have at a willing-Savage only for her to thank me after. But if we did? To each their own.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest issue here is the attacks without the research; in order to post a convincing argument about a particular brand of heroin, er, fanfic, you should know something about that which you speak. Yes, I'm certain there are taboo subjects written about out there that are sensationalized. I'd have to say, Savage's fics are not among those, unfortunately. You see, I adore Edward like no other, and of course, Edward and Bella forever! So when victim Bella doesn't fall for my beloved right away, I'm like, wtf?
But, unlike the accusers who DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK!, Savage writes about what is real *sigh*. Her characters are complex, not flat. They have issues that need to be worked through, and that is a long process. Do they end up together at the end, even after what Edward has done? Damn right! Otherwise I sure as hell wouldn't be reading. Did I mention I read fanfic because I'm all about the lurv between Edward and Bella?
But I'm also cautious, because, as much as she knows I would hate her and more than likely abandon her ass for good, Savage has warned me time and again that she's not in it for the happily ever after. If that's not the way it works out, then that's not the way it works out. If Edward can't get his shit together, work through his issues, then maybe, just maybe, it won't end the way I'd like it to.
I'm sure there are exploiting stories out there, but to cite one that you obviously haven't read through is just ignorant on the behalf of the author and those who blindly agree (no, I'm not calling anyone names; ignorant = lacking education or knowledge).
And I'm totally guessing the blogger or supporters of the article don't frequent literotica.com's reluctance section? My bad. Last I checked, as another commenter noted, fantasizing about the taboo is more common than not. Those that have those fantasies are not considered mentally ill, nor do they wish for them to be carried out. But the fantasy exists, and for those with poor imaginations, someone has to write about it (without being attacked for sensationalizing it, as no psychologist would suggest is occurring). But alas, that is smut, which Savage's fics are not solely. Bummer.
Oh wait, I forget, I'm one of those that skips the smut ;)
well, I read your stories because i love them. if I didn't, I wouldn't. there are tons of stories with much more "shoking" plots and they don't get the attention you get. so I'd say it's not because of the exploitative topics we readers follow you. it's a childish way of thinking. probably came from jealous people. don't let it bother you. you are quite famous among fic writters and readers, I think this kind of ill and wrong comments are a consequence of that... you don't deserve it at all.
ReplyDeletekikabr
Silly me, I thought Hide & Drink was ultimately about battling your addictions, wrestling with forgiveness and finding redemption. The "love story" that was apparently offensively titillating was secondary to me when I read it.
ReplyDeleteLove your writing, love your stories - even when they give me heart fail! Obviously, so do a lot of others. Keep doing what you do!
ReplyDeleteSavage, every writer that publishes her/his work in a blog or a fiction site is concern with others interest. If you only did it to entertain yourself you wouldn't publish it. But there is nothing wrong about it, we all love others interest, it is human nature. We love to share. However, denying it is hypocrisy.
ReplyDeleteI love your stories but all of them have common elements, the male character is always damage in one way or another and the female character is always the male character savior, and often the saving involves some sort of sacrifice on her part.
You say you choose your stories line because you, as a psychologist, have spent years of your life studying abnormal brain function, the behavior of victims, the reasons perpetrators of crimes, etc. However, the victim always behaves the same and so does the male, only the set changes. So, in my opinion, this choice is more of a personal one and not a professional one. There is nothing wrong about it but let’s be honest. I also appreciate the kind of storyline so this is in no way an insult, just my opinion.
I believe that a lot of your fans (I am one as well) disagree with you, but are afraid of pissing you off and consequently missing your great stories, but I think honesty is always better. I must say that einfach-mich has some great points and some of them I share. Sometimes this fandom is extremely ruthless when it comes to someone with a less popular opinion.
I totally love you more after reading this post….and I didn't think that was possible!!!! xoxoxoxoxo
ReplyDeleteOf course I like that people are interested in what I write. I'm thrilled by the attention some of my stories have received. I just don't do it for the reason of receiving lots of reviews. Long before I knew of FFN, I posted Star Wars stories on an almost unknown site (where they still sit today) and would maybe get an email or two once in a very long while. I kept writing them. One of those is a true rape fic from the rapist's POV. It is not the least bit glorified. Its actually more of a horror story than anything else.
ReplyDeleteMy stories do have common elements - absolutely. Edward's screwed up, and Bella saves him. Love conquers all. Usually there is a price to pay, but one the characters are willing to accept.
Not a practicing psychologist any longer (just to be clear). I write because that was always my love, but no longer my career. The characters can have some similar traits - it IS fanfiction after all - to some degree the characters are set. I incorporate canon traits into all the Es and Bs, so there will always be some similarity.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. It really takes a lot to piss me off. I admit, I went a little over the edge today, which is not my normal self. I apologize for that. I'd go back and delete some of my own comments, but I also believe once you say something, you'd better stick with it and don't hide. No one is going to piss me off to the point where I stop writing. Not going to happen. :)
Einfach_mich does have some very valid points, as do many of the posters on her blog. I have no problem with people's perceptions of the fic. I only held issue with being depicted as a review-mongering writer, who only chooses sensational topics for the shock value. I am not. She has since retracted this, for which I am grateful.
Thanks for your comment - thoughtful, well-stated and polite. :) I really appreciate it!
It always ticks me off when overly opinionated readers try to dictate what writers write! If they don't like your writing style, they can take their stuffed shirts and find someone else who panders to their lacy-wedding whims. I adore your writing! You write real, messed-up, struggling people who are easy to relate to! So many times my heart has hurt for the protagonist because you evoke emotion so very, very well. Don't ever change for them! <3
ReplyDeleteSeriously, Woman just keep doing what you're doing. I love your stories and the lack of "Normal" and "Predictable." That shit is just boring . Thank you for sharing your wonderful stories, with us .
ReplyDeleteShanelle1489
That was a scary story, I do not know how I will be able to sleep now. Maybe I need to read some Offside again
ReplyDeleteYou fly so much higher than flies Savage :)))) They look up, see you and bzzzzz about you, what else can they do ? Say or write anything interesting ? Pee on your shoes ? Easier than create something original is to critisize and negate. Why do you even care ? Nobody can cater for every taste anyway, it's all natural that we, the readers, like this writer's stories and detest the other's. But still we have free will to choose, don't we. If somebody doesn't like your stories and still sticks to reading them ... well, suits herself. Reading not only your stories but none less interesting posts, imagining you as a RL person a bit - I am very surprised that it bothers you, don't pay attention and don't let them get to you. A mature person knows what she is worth, regardless what the others express and you are a grown ass woman yourself :))))
ReplyDeleteI think you should write as long as it is what you like doing. I have always thought you are professionally familiar with psychology and during reading CBWR? I got the feeling you know prisoners well. Well, every compliment has been said on the style, choice of topics, very original plots and more in your writing but there is more I like. That is a rare gift to find and describe characters completely real - I can see real life full blood people in your stories, that is rare an great. And last but definitely least your superb sense of humour (e.g. vision of Alice poking angrilly her screen like another slightly bigger Angry Bird is burnt in my brain for forever, thank you).
The measure of my devotion to your writing is the fact that I am a terrible softie by nature almost never reading angst as it is too painfull an experience.... your stories scare the sh*** out of me and I am delighted too bravely read them at the same time.
Like now, UC is sinking into angst right now and I am trembling waiting for the same in Offside any moment soon but I won't give up ... oh, nonono.
Savage - write - for your entertainment and for mine, ours please.
And have nice holidays far away from this small stuffy internet world :D
NO...
ReplyDeleteAUSTENBRONTEMEYER SAID:
(All of my ID's are Teaching, or related to one or the other staff position so I will continue to post this way. While I do have a Facebook for ABM, I have tried to cancel out the user name without success as the manner with which it loads does concern me however, so... Anonymous it is : )
In answer:
Why did you even reply to that crap?
Idiots love to complain, without merit and purely to have a platform for self gratification.
Your success as an author has solely to do with your skill as a writer.
Awards?
Recs on the majority of FF sites?
CURRENT recs on outside sites, one as recent as one month ago?
And the best?
Recs by authors and editors in publishing who know their business in recognizing worth and talent.
Your work is worth our time because you are talented and skillful at your craft.
As an author you are the impetus for change when necessary, or in support when coming change may be detrimental. Eloquent voices backed by millions can and will hide the truth. Simple truth resides in your voice as it always has.
Approaching subject matter which may be controversial is our business as it has been for centuries.
So take the heat when it comes, secure in the knowledge that you must be doing your job, and doing it well.
ABM
@Savage
ReplyDeleteoh so if i correctly understand angela was tricked by Jessica in believing of becoming a second wife and having her own kids, a family and a man to take care of them. But you say thats not whats gonna happen. I hope Im wrong, but whats gonna happen here is that angela is going to be fucked until her baby making factory cant take it anymore and be ripped off her children. Or maybe Edward/Bella/Angela will have a thresome and live like a big happy family ever after?
sorry im being kind of raw, but thats what you do to us, stir emotons...lol
Hope you will figure this out for the best. I stll have faith, but can i ask for 1 thing only? Can you make Bella smack the shit out of Edward for being devastaed tellin bella the news and on the other side talking to her as if this is the most normal thing on earth.
Thanks
Alaina
Nope, Austenbrontemeyer said:
ReplyDeleteI had forgotten, I believe we need a link to reply to the posts of others. I thought it was an option in the past so if you will ask your techie to put the link back in we would be sure to promptly respond as necessary.
I have difficulty understanding why someone would respond to one story on a link for an entirely different story or thread. Odd. Hmmmm....apparently stomping her foot over there fell upon deaf ears as well.
: )
I have read some of your stories and some I haven't as a lot of stories that I've started and not finished. I certainly NEVER gave the author grief over it! I appreciate that writers put a lot of time and effort and thought into their stories. Face it, you aren't going to like every thing you read but others might like what you don't. So move on!
ReplyDeletePerhaps that 'dear' reader should just head out and pick herself out a good Harlequin. I for one need a bit of your special brand of magic in my life!
ReplyDeleteTell, it!!! Good on you for smacking that shit down in style. I'm not surprised to find that you have studied what you're writing about. And yeah, I'm following you. damn straight. And Suburbs E/B make me puke, hard, too.
ReplyDeleteI have read some of your stories and some I haven't as a lot of stories that I've started and not finished. I certainly NEVER gave the author grief over it! I appreciate that writers put a lot of time and effort and thought into their stories. Face it, you aren't going to like every thing you read but others might like what you don't. So move on!
ReplyDeleteIt always ticks me off when overly opinionated readers try to dictate what writers write! If they don't like your writing style, they can take their stuffed shirts and find someone else who panders to their lacy-wedding whims. I adore your writing! You write real, messed-up, struggling people who are easy to relate to! So many times my heart has hurt for the protagonist because you evoke emotion so very, very well. Don't ever change for them! <3
ReplyDeleteLove your writing, love your stories - even when they give me heart fail! Obviously, so do a lot of others. Keep doing what you do!
ReplyDeleteBeta here, let the flogging commence. See? I just wrote about a touchy subject which some may have issue with, but I'm not really about to reach through the interwebz with my non-existant whips and chains to have at a willing-Savage only for her to thank me after. But if we did? To each their own.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest issue here is the attacks without the research; in order to post a convincing argument about a particular brand of heroin, er, fanfic, you should know something about that which you speak. Yes, I'm certain there are taboo subjects written about out there that are sensationalized. I'd have to say, Savage's fics are not among those, unfortunately. You see, I adore Edward like no other, and of course, Edward and Bella forever! So when victim Bella doesn't fall for my beloved right away, I'm like, wtf?
But, unlike the accusers who DIDN'T DO THEIR HOMEWORK!, Savage writes about what is real *sigh*. Her characters are complex, not flat. They have issues that need to be worked through, and that is a long process. Do they end up together at the end, even after what Edward has done? Damn right! Otherwise I sure as hell wouldn't be reading. Did I mention I read fanfic because I'm all about the lurv between Edward and Bella?
But I'm also cautious, because, as much as she knows I would hate her and more than likely abandon her ass for good, Savage has warned me time and again that she's not in it for the happily ever after. If that's not the way it works out, then that's not the way it works out. If Edward can't get his shit together, work through his issues, then maybe, just maybe, it won't end the way I'd like it to.
I'm sure there are exploiting stories out there, but to cite one that you obviously haven't read through is just ignorant on the behalf of the author and those who blindly agree (no, I'm not calling anyone names; ignorant = lacking education or knowledge).
And I'm totally guessing the blogger or supporters of the article don't frequent literotica.com's reluctance section? My bad. Last I checked, as another commenter noted, fantasizing about the taboo is more common than not. Those that have those fantasies are not considered mentally ill, nor do they wish for them to be carried out. But the fantasy exists, and for those with poor imaginations, someone has to write about it (without being attacked for sensationalizing it, as no psychologist would suggest is occurring). But alas, that is smut, which Savage's fics are not solely. Bummer.
Oh wait, I forget, I'm one of those that skips the smut ;)
Don't waste time and energy, this fandom, like all in thsi life, has a good side and a bad one. Some ppl likes drama, some ppl can't accept that there are better writers than themself, there is envy and malice, but at the end of the day you realized there are a lots and lots of readers that love the way you write/think/plot etc etc, and I'm one of them.
ReplyDeleteSo let them, they'll rot in their shit, they'll keep talking shit about you and/or your fics but deep down they want to have your ideas for fics and your amount of reviews.
It's ok to vent but don't let them get to you!!!!
Xox
way to go Savage! if you don't like it get the fuck off her blog!
ReplyDeleteYou`re right - I haven`t read your fics. I`d never even heard about you or your fics before einfach mich mentioned them in her post.
ReplyDeleteI read your post as a comment to einfach mich`s post and that post was about abuse/rape fics. I have in no way made any comments on your fics - apart from the fact that one of them was mentioned in einfach mich`s post. I made a comment about your post. A comment on the comment, so to speak.
And if you`re not implying what kind of fics we (as in people who don`t care much for abuse fics) enjoy - then why mention what Mr. Savage likes? Is it really so that - in you mind - if one doesn`t like the "dark fics", as some prefer to call them, then one *must* like sappy shit?
I like sex in fics, as in real life. I don`t like abusers being made sexy.
Why do you have the need to imply that those of us who don`t like rape fics don`t like it because we can`t handle sex in fics? It`s the falling in love with a rapist and an abuser that`s disturbing - not the sex.
ReplyDeleteAnd no - one is not necessarily boring just because one doesn`t like rape and abuse made into something hot. There are plenty of racy fics out there that deal with sex in a more credible way than making rapists sexy.
Ugh, I've been trying so hard to not involve myself in this, but it seems I just can't get away, so I will go ahead and post my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteLet me say this first. I do NOT think that Hide & Drink (or anything you've written for that matter) should be included in what she wrote. I read her blog and I kind of agree with the overall message that she had. There are some stories out there that have these dark themes, but have a somewhat "rainbows and unicorns" type love story. I don't buy it. They just don't make sense. People just don't suddenly fall inlove with their rapist.
I've only read two of the stories that she mentions and one of them was yours. The other completely fell under what she was saying. At the end of it I was left saying to myself "wait. now they just live happily ever after? That just ain't right!"
Anyway, like I said, I agree with her overall message. There does seem to be a theme in some fics that makes it sexy or awesome to be raped/enslaved/beaten/whatever. Like somehow these things are okay. I was raped, and let me tell you... it's not sexy, awesome, or okay.
I'll say this again... I don't think your stories fall under this at all. I never thought that any of them made it okay to be doing whatever it was they were doing. I really enjoy your stories. You have them doing these not so great things, but you have the thoughts behind the actions. You include the 'why.' The behave this way for a reason and you include that. There is so much behind what is actually going on and that is what I truly enjoy. Anyway, I'm rambling and with my lack of sleep last night I don't think I'm being as articulate as I need to be. I'll just stop now.
Totally agree with all of you that said great things about Savage and get the fuck off this site for all you that are giving her grief!!
ReplyDeleteI have found that sometimes, people will say (or write things) even though THEY.DON'T.KNOW.WHAT.THEY.ARE.FUCKING.TALKING.ABOUT! So, I kind of learned to ignore them. Seriously, when has real life ever been all hearts and flowers and unicorns and rainbows and sunshine? If you want that kind of un-reality in your fic reading then you ought to know what you are getting into BEFORE you read a story!
ReplyDeleteI am venting. I have been in this fic fandom since Aug 2009 and have seen these waves of bullshit move through it in almost regular cycles and it just kills me that there are such dopey ass people out there.
*sigh* Shay, I read your stories precisely for the reasons you have described and do not read your stories with any expectation that they will be nothing but well-written, character driven with a compelling plot-line that I absolutely enjoy...each and every time.
Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of cold, black heart.
ReplyDeleteAs the co-author of another story that could easily have been mentioned in that post yesterday, I applaud your response and shout, "Hear, hear!"
Without conflict there is no story. And some of us choose to provide conflict through the personalities and behavior of the main characters rather than external forces. This is what interests me; though I'm not trained in psychology, I am fascinated by the way people think and behave, and how their past affects their present and future.
I, too, enjoy receiving reviews (as long as they're polite), but they're not my goal, my reason for writing. I write to explore my own psyche and the myriad possibilities that human behavior provides. If I were never to receive another review, I would still write. Most of the things I've written will never see the light of day - not because I think they're not worth it, but because they're too personal.
I could go on, but I imagine I'm just the choir preaching to the minister, lol. You've already expressed what I feel in a much more eloquent way than I'm currently capable of.
You have a very loyal reader in me. Thank you again for your stories, your characters, and your insight.
From @3Hare5
I love your stories and if people do not like reading what you are reading, they should stop reading and go find their rainbows. I do love sweets but enough so I don't get toothache. SO please keep writing what you are writing , I love the complications in your story. I remember when I read Hide and Drink , and the thing that was attractive was that the story was different.
ReplyDeleteLove your stories , :D
I have enjoyed every one of your stories, Savy. They may not have been comfortable at times, but they have always been thought provoking and entertaining (*gasp* reading something just for fun?!? shocking!). You have a great vacation and thank you for sharing these stories with us! :)
ReplyDeleteShay,
ReplyDeleteKeep on doing what you're doing. I have a lot of respect for you with your super time-management skills being able to write, work outside of the home, and take care of family.
There are a lot of strong opinions in the fandom, some are enlightened and informed and others are not.
You have a degree in psychology? That's FANTASTIC! What a benefit to your writing skills and to your life!
You are WICKED AWESOME!!! Don't ever change!
Love ya,
jedigirlsc
Te encuentro toda la razón....por eso amo lo que escribes :)
ReplyDeleteTo each his own. We all have different wants and likes. It is not my right or anyone else right to put someone else down for what makes them happy! If someone doesn't doesn't like what or how you write don't read it! Why post some negative review or say you write for the amount of reviews! I like your wit and the originality in your stories ! They never bore me and I am never sure what you will come up with! Love it! CBWR left me laughing, even with the subject matter! I do have to say, I enjoy some of the stories with just plain dating, marriage and babies! I read a little of everything! Rigt now I am reading Revelry, what angst and heartbreak in that one... TeamBella...gotta love her! Ok, I have rambled enough! Sorry! Hope your vacation is a good one! Love everything you write! Fiction with teeth! Not boredom!
ReplyDeleteWell..this will probably sound totally kiss ass but I love love love all of your stories (well, maybe not Hide and Drink but that is just because it sucked me in and sucked the life out of me). I like that they are different, well written, and your intelligence is obvious.
ReplyDeleteSide note...are you my mother? I haven't heard "flying fuck" fly from someone's lips since I was a kid.....